9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
My response: Isn't this partially an argument of silence? How are we to know WHY Jesus did not pray for non-believers at this point? One of the reasons offered to me was that Jesus would in no way pray for the non-elect, because those would be unanswered prayers, and it is inconceivable that any of Jesus' prayers would go unanswered by His Father.
David observes: And who were the ones given there in John 17? The 11 disciples are the ones given. The disciples were not a reference to the elect as a total class. And secondly, in verses 21-22 he does pray for the world, as follows:
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Werner: Jesus is praying that through the unity of the ELECT, the world may believe in Him! This is an incredible thing. Here is a distinction between ALL those who will believe in Jesus and the world in general. Jesus prays for the unity of all believers (i.e. the elect) so that the world may believe! Reymond's evidence is non-existent at this point.
5 comments:
20 “My prayer is not for them alone [meaning the elect that is hearing Christ speaking at that particular time]. I pray also for those who will believe [these are the elect of the future that at some point in their lives will receive Christ]in me through their message [the disciples will spread the gospel but only the elect will respond], 21 that all of them [the elect at that time and the elect of the future] may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Benji, you did not deal with that part of the verse that seems tosound like Jesus is praying that through the unity oof the disciples, the world would come to faith!
"The world" will NEVER come to faith in Jesus. Isaiah prophesied as much in chapter 53 verses 11 & 12 "By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities...And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.” Many not all.
BUT that was Old Testament, so lets see what JESUS has to say about Himself.
Matthew 20:28 "...the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for MANY.” Many not all.
Mark 14:24 “And he said unto them, This is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many.”
John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.” He gave His life for the sheep but not the goats.
John 10:14-15 “I am the good shepherd; I know my own sheep, and they know me, just as my Father knows me and I know the Father. So I sacrifice my life for the sheep.” Again His sacrifice was for the sheep not for the goats.
John 17:2-3 “As You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as MANY as You have given Him.”
Acts 2:39 “For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
God's promises are only for the children of the promise, and not for the children of the flesh.
Secondly, the word "many" does not exclude all. All is still 'many'
Jesus MAY have prayed that the world would come to faith in Him but if so He prayed a prayer that has not been answered in the affirmative because we know that not everyone in the world has come or will come to faith in Jesus. Judas is one example of billions.
I now have "many" $20.00 bills in my wallet but I do not have "all" $20 bills in my wallet. My wife also has many $20.00 bills in her wallet and she also has some $50.00 $10.00 and $5.00 bills too but she does not have "ALL" $50, $20,$10 or $5 dollar bills. Many and all are exclusive.
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